WGR’s Summer Streaming Recs

20.07.18 Summer Streaming Hour.mp3

Sarah McConnell [00:00:06] The coronavirus continues to rage in the U.S. which means limited quality time spent with friends. So how are we filling the void? Netflix, lots and lots of Netflix.

SFX [00:00:19] With everyone staying home and staying inside. Right now, people are watching a lot of TV.

SFX [00:00:25] More time at home, more time to stream. According to a new survey from credit cards got cut. More than three in 10 American adults have added a streaming service during the Covid-19 outbreak.

SFX [00:00:35] Nielsen just reporting that Americans streaming minutes grew twenty two percent the week of March 16th from the prior week.

Sarah McConnell [00:00:42] I'm Sara McConnell. And today on the show, streaming recommendations to get you through the summer of the pandemic. And later, what film can teach us about race and identity as our country reckons with social justice? But first, Netflix launched in 1998 but didn't start streaming movies and shows until 2007. Now it has over 182 million subscribers worldwide. A few years back, SNL poked fun at Netflix and its seemingly infinite popularity.

SFX from SNL [00:01:17] This holiday season. Give the gift of Netflix and enjoy streaming shows like Stranger Things, The Crown and Making a Murderer. And in 2019, we'll have even more programing to choose from because we've gone crazy. That's right. We're spending billions of dollars and making every show in the world. Our goal is the endless scroll. By the time you reach the bottom of our menu, there's new shows at the top and thus the singularity will be achieved.

Sarah McConnell [00:01:49] But how exactly has Netflix gotten so big? Myles McNutt is a communication and theater arts professor at Old Dominion University. He explains Netflix rise from mail-in rental service to video streaming juggernaut.

Sarah McConnell [00:02:07] Myles, so much has changed how we watch and stream shows in the last decade. Was it the dawn of Netflix that changed everything?

Myles McNutt [00:02:17] I mean, yes and no. I think one thing is about Netflix that's really important to understand is that Netflix changed how we access TV. And in doing so, the advent of streaming, it's like, Netflix didn't invent the idea of binge watching. For example, we had DVDs, people used to trade tapes in the mail. It's not the Netflix did that but it made it so much easier. It changed the convenience of watching things, of how quickly we watched them. And it's sort of like when you think about it, Netflix started making original content, their own series, seven years ago in 2013. Before that, they were just streaming old shows. And at that point, it was just like a form of syndication, like reruns that you would watch. That's what Netflix was doing. Once it started making its own shows it completely opened up where it was disrupting almost all parts. Interrupting how TV is produced, how it's distributed, how we watch it. There are so many different things in Netflix did to change the way we relate to television that it's hard to not say that it was the sort of inciting force of that change.

Sarah McConnell [00:03:16] You know, when I first saw that Netflix had created its own programing, I thought, "yeah, like I want to watch that." But what were the early original shows by Netflix that made everybody jump over to them?

[00:03:28] I think it's it's interesting that Netflix didn't create like a new kind of program and they were making the kind of shows that, say, HBO was making at the time. Their first big original series was House of Cards, starring Kevin Spacey, produced by Media Rights Capital, directed by David Fincher. It was this very much prestige play. It was very much just big political drama remake of a British show, the exact kind of thing you would have aired on premium cable, HBO, Showtime. After that, there was Orange is the New Black, which is sort of the second show that, OK, it's not a fluke. There's not just one show that they invested in. But I think what was interesting is that yeah, nobody really knew what Netflix was going to be doing. And once they started doing that, it's like, well, okay, then that would give them the calling card that other producers would say, "okay, Netflix seems like they can make this viable. They're committed to this. They're spending billions of dollars on original content. We can now put our shows there." And once that started happening, we went from a point where they were releasing a show every couple of months, back in 2013, to now where there is a new season of a Netflix show debuting pretty much every week, sometimes two or more per week.

Sarah McConnell [00:04:32] I feel like it hasn't been that many years since we've started saying this is the golden age of streaming, the golden age of watching. What do you think led to the golden age of watching? Was it a particular set of shows that suddenly appeared streamable?

Myles McNutt [00:04:49] I think we we love that whole term is sort of like there was the golden age of TV sort of back in the 1950s. We talked about the 1970s in those terms the golden age of television was also the 2000s. The Sopranos, The West Wing, those kind of series. We're always sort of looking to find ways to legitimate the TV that we're looking at and I think with streaming. What's different about that a little bit is that it's not just the shows themselves, which I would argue are not dramatically different or better than what basic cable channel FX was producing at the same time. What was different, though, is there's a perceived ubiquity, the idea that Netflix feels much more accessible. You get to watch them all at once that you in doing so, it feels like they're more sort of a part of the cultural dialog. The struggle, from my perspective, is that, like, I don't want us to lose the fact that Netflix did not completely reinvent the wheel. Television did not dramatically change. It was a series of subtle changes that add up. But as this convenience factor, that it's easier now to access Netflix and we don't have to be subscribed to cable or find something in a certain channel at a certain time, we can watch it on our own time, on our phones, on our tablets, all those different factors. I think the cumulative impact of those smaller changes creates sort of this perception of, say, a golden age of streaming when in reality it's just an extension of all the golden ages that came before.

Sarah McConnell [00:06:08] So what do you think is the downside to this explosion of subscription based streaming services?

Myles McNutt [00:06:15] I mean, there's does a lot of small things that I would sort of point to like. One of the things that in my own sort of research and writing that I've sort of pointed to is something just very small that just bugs me. It's not like this seismic thing, but the sort of these streaming services, like opening title sequence is one of my favorite things about TV shows. They're distinct. They air each week. They sort of orient us. They're really dynamic, great theme songs. All these kind of really interesting elements to them. But these streaming services, you skip those.

Sarah McConnell [00:06:41] I love skipping them because when I want to binge, I don't want to spend any time when I could be diving into the new material.

Myles McNutt [00:06:49] And see, I hate that for me. That ritual, that ritual, that experience. And I understand why people like it. But to me, that's valuing the sort of perception of convenience over this sort of narrative and the sort of the thematic possibilities, the sort of storytelling that that is providing that break, that breath. The rhythms of that were really important to me and I'd really invested in them. And recently I've been watching The Simpsons on Disney Plus and they keep wanting me to skip The Simpsons intro. And I'm just like, you're destroying my childhood if you expect me to skip this. It's so important that I can see the chalkboard gag and I can see the couch gag. The idea of skipping this in that framework is so antithetical to how I experienced this. But we're valuing sort of streaming's focus on convenience and economy over necessarily that sort of original experience. Between the kind of small things those shifts and how we watch things sort of like you think of it the same, whereas like with the Netflix show, when it launches all at once. And other streaming services do this as well. You miss out on weekly conversation. It all happens at once. So if you're busy that weekend, you completely miss the conversation on social media with the people in your life. Whereas before you had a whole week to digest and to engage with and theorize and think about. I still miss when that doesn't happen. I think about how a lot of streaming shows could be experienced differently.

Sarah McConnell [00:08:04] What do you think is changing about how we stream and watch programs during the pandemic? I mean, surely something big is happening behind all these closed doors, right?

Myles McNutt [00:08:17] I think that there's no question that, like, you look more at the first big sort of pandemic, quote unquote, "success stories" was Tiger King, the documentary series on Netflix. And this is an example where, like we ran an event here I know to you, where we talked about with alumni about the series and impact. One of the questions I asked this sort of zoom invite that we had about this conversation was like, do you think you would have watched this in the same way if you weren't currently quarantined in your house? Right. Like, was there something about the circumstances that made that particular show stand out? And was there something about this time and certain kinds of content and certain kinds of shows that really appeal in this environment? There's no question that's the case. Netflix is data. They now do a top 10 list, which give you a sense of what's popular at any given point. We still don't have enough information on what's being watched and how, but they have all that data. And so all their algorithms are figuring out, "OK, we have a captive audience. Obviously, usage is no question up, but what are the patterns that they're seeing? How might that influence the kind of programs they develop?" That's all still very much proprietary information. And the way they count viewers is deeply suspect and not the same as broadcast audiences. And so it's sort of we're still not really sure what those impacts look like. But just anecdotally, hearing people talk about things, it does seem like the captive audience factor has definitely resulted in a show like Tiger King being maybe a little bit more of a cultural event than it would have if it was competing with people's normal lives.

Sarah McConnell [00:09:39] What have you been watching? That's sort of a guilty pleasure for you?

Myles McNutt [00:09:43] Well, first of all, I don't believe in guilty pleasures. This is very important in this case. I understand why we use the term. It makes sense. But to me, there's no guilt in pleasure. If you like something like it. Talk about it. Not everything needs to be sort of huge brain food notion. My best example of that is an ABC series called Holy Moly. It is an extreme mini golf competition. It's basically this like absurd giant mini golf courses that are built very much to punish people and to get people wet and hit them with windmills. It's just it's very silly experience, but it's got this great aesthetic to it. It's very charming. It's very much like wipeout in that vein of sort of this sort of like part calamity, but also just kind of par competition. It's summer. It's a time of year where we're sort of invested in that. But it's also obviously a time where we're kind of looking to TV in some cases for a break from other parts of life. And I feel like that's an example of a show that very much stands out in that respect.

Sarah McConnell [00:10:35] You know, today on the show, we're asking guests to recommend a program on one of the big three streaming services that others might want to take a look at. Do you have one you could recommend?

Myles McNutt [00:10:47] I do. And it's definitely not an easy watch. It's not quite Holy Moly, in this respect. There is a show called Unbelievable. This is actually based on this American Life episode called The Anatomy of Doubt, which debuted in 2016, which was based on a effectively a deeply mishandled rape case in the late 2000s and sort of the injustice that was done to this young survivor and by the police, by the investigators, and by a process that sort of treated her as a victim, but also basically kept interrogating her about the details of this crime and failed to understand how trauma manifests in distinct cases and how this plays out. And so the first episode of Unbelievable is all about sort of Marie's story and this sort of tragedy that happens to her and the way police badger her into effectively claiming wrongly that she wasn't really raped and made it up because her story, quote unquote, had holes in. It's deeply depressing and sort of distressing experience and a lot of waves. And that first episode ends in this very harrowing moment and very much that Netflix cliffhanger that we talked about where it's like the next episode is going to start, but you're left just holding your breath at what has happened. And if you had to wait a week, I don't know what I would do. Like, I don't think you could make this show and make you wait a week. But when that next episode starts, they show you the worst isn't happening. They skip forward two years to a different investigation and that, we later learned, is connected. And we see a different detective handling a case in such a fundamentally different way that when you hear her talking to this victim, it's like you can exhale. It's like you can sort of take a breath and say that not all cases are like what we just saw that when you hear her give that particular case, you hear something completely different.

Sarah McConnell [00:12:26] I'd love to play a clip of that just to entice us with a little bit of what Unbelievable has to offer.

SFX [00:12:35] Are you comfortable? Yeah, I'm good. Amber, all our research has shown that the sooner a victim of a crime talks about it, the better his or her recall is. So it's all right with you. I'd like to dive right in.

SFX [00:12:52] Sure. Where would you like me to start? Let's start with background. That's your building there. Yeah. Apartment B4. How long have you lived there? Three months. I moved out here for school. I'm at Tabor College.

SFX [00:13:10] Were you studying?

SFX [00:13:11] Computer science.

SFX [00:13:12] Smart. A lot of work in that field.

SFX [00:13:16] My colleague, Detective Wilson. He says the assault happened this morning?

SFX [00:13:21] Early.

SFX [00:13:23] Before the assault. Can you tell me a little about where you were, what you were doing?

SFX [00:13:27] I was sleeping. I stayed up really late. My boyfriend was visiting from Chicago and he left yesterday. I always do that when he leaves. Stay up late. It's like all of a sudden I can't sleep without him, you know?

SFX [00:13:41] I do. Have you told him what happened?

SFX [00:13:44] I, I haven't told anyone. Is that we heard? The thing is, Eric is super protective of me. So as soon as I tell him he's going to be...

SFX [00:13:58] Amber, you don't have to explain yourself to me who you choose to tell when you choose to tell them. That is entirely your decision. Just wanted to know.

Myles McNutt [00:14:11] So that seemed to me I go back to it all the time because it's just it's not complicated. Merritt Weaver, who you hear speaking, is very much not a showy actress, very understated, but just hearing those sort of words of comfort, the way she treats these victims so differently. Is this sort of sense of hope that drives you forward to say this is not a show about this sort of a terrible thing happening over and over again. It's a show about the possibility of ultimately in this circumstance, sort of detectives who have a better understanding of trauma and of sort of rape victims treating this case in a better way and working towards justice. It's a difficult watch. It's not an easy show to sort of go through. But I would argue that I ended up feeling very sort of not relieved about what happened. But ultimately, I guess hopeful that there's a possibility that shows like this, the stories like this, based on a real story, can help us better understand how we process these situations.

Sarah McConnell [00:15:02] Isn't it interesting that it came out last fall but is so helpful during this time of anti police brutality protests?

Myles McNutt [00:15:11] I mean, from my perspective, in this circumstance, it does connect to the sort of notion of sort of, is this a case that a police detective should be handling in a criminal fashion rather than having social services and sort of different systems that are able to handle parts of this process rather than detectives who are there to solve a crime rather than necessarily sort of communicate with entry "a victim" and sort of the nature of which we forgive our allowing the police to maybe take on roles that they're not equipped or trained for. I think there's a definite message about that in the context of this, because depending on the detective that you get in these circumstances, you're going to get a fundamentally different understanding of what she experiences in these cases.

Sarah McConnell [00:15:51] Yeah, that's fascinating. Well, Myles McNutt, thank you for sharing your insights on With Good Reason.

Myles McNutt [00:15:57] Thank you very much for having me.

Sarah McConnell [00:16:03] Myles McNutt is a communication and theater arts professor at Old Dominion University.

Sarah McConnell [00:16:15] My next guest is Yosser Bouchtia, yeah, she's a Moroccan American filmmaker and cinema professor at Virginia Commonwealth University. She says the shows and movies that excite her the most are the ones that include voices. We don't usually hear histories that haven't been told. And for Yossera, nothing exemplifies those qualities quite like Watchmen. The 2019 superhero television series.

Yossera Bouchtia [00:16:42] It takes place in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and I feel that it's actually the first story of its kind that has shed light on the Tulsa Massacre. It's taking a superhero story and it's able to not only twist it around, but incorporate some social commentaries that are so relevant and so needed right now in terms of what answers we're looking for. And I think we can look to these shows, these films that are out there right now to help us understand where we are with this reckoning and just how to move forward. Because I feel more than anything, we need to know that we can move forward and that there is a path forward.

Sarah McConnell [00:17:35] You mentioned the Tulsa RaceMmassacre, also called the Black Wall Street Massacre from 1921. I do think it was the first time a lot of Americans had heard of it.

Yossera Bouchtia [00:17:45] There's still a lot of history that's unseen and unheard of. And again, these shows, especially Watchmen right now, are not just entertaining, but they're actually educating us on historical moments that honestly are not really brought up. I think there's more room right now and it's so needed to shed light on things that are still unknown just to help us understand how far we need to go.

Sarah McConnell [00:18:19] Watchmen has a mostly white team behind it. The original writer, the show creator, are both white. Do you think there's a danger letting white creators and writers tell the story of racism in America?

Yossera Bouchtia [00:18:33] You know, I think I ask my students the same questions that they should ask themselves. And that's, "Am I the right person to tell this story?" And I don't completely believe in identity real estate. I don't believe that if you're a man or you're a woman, you cannot tell a story of someone who is a different gender than you. But I am always a big proponent of having more people of color in the entertainment world and in the entertainment industry. And we still have a lot of work there in terms of bringing these voices to the forefront. But still, I think we're going in the right direction. And one example I can give is there is a film called Last Black Man in San Francisco, and that came out in 2019 and it was directed by Joe Talbot. And the story was by Jimmie Fails and also by Joe Talbot. So Joe Talbot is is white identifying and Jimmie Fails is Black. And it's a quite personal story of Jimmie Fails reclaiming his grandfather's house in a gentrified neighborhood in San Francisco. It feels very authentic because Joe Talbot really did a very immersive collaboration with Jimmie Fails and in fact, Jimmy Fails acted in it. So when there's that kind of collaboration in that kind of research, it doesn't matter who tells the story, the you know. Yeah, the authenticity and how the film is received is really the test. And I think this film passed the test.

Sarah McConnell [00:20:27] Let's play a little bit of the last black man in San Francisco just to give people the flavor of that film.

SFX [00:20:35] I always come back to the house. It's always empty. What if we just peeked inside?.... That's not your house and that's not your neighborhood.

Yossera Bouchtia [00:21:00] I've had so many of my students tell me they were just left in the movie theater after watching this film, just bawling, crying. And that's what good storytells does to you. It just evokes your deepest emotions and stirs you in ways you did not anticipate.

Sarah McConnell [00:21:21] Who have you seen your own North African heritage reflected in some of what you're able to stream these days?

Yossera Bouchtia [00:21:29] I am from Morocco originally. I was born in Rabaa, which is the capital. And my family and I moved when I was about seven years old. So to be perfectly honest, when I grew up, I people would ask me, well, where are you from? What's your race? When I was asked, what's your race? I never knew how to answer that because it was just not something I really grew up with. I was just like, well, I'm just I'm Moroccan, but now I live here. So I just I knew I was from Africa. That's it. And so now as an adult, I identify as not just Moroccan, but also American. I still ask myself what I don't know, what my race is. I just know I'm Moroccan and I'm American. That's it. But I'm still deeply connected to my heritage and my ancestry. So I have recently discovered this comedian, Ramy. And he actually came out with a series called Ramy. It's on Hulu. And it really just explores what it's like to be a Muslim American, he's Egyptian, and how to navigate life as a millennial. Again, I just I love seeing stories from voices that we have not heard before. And also, just to go back to the authenticity, you feel like just how personal it is, the show and everything, you feel the truth and what Ramy is trying to speak to. It also does it under the lens of comedy. So it's another way of making it a bit more accessible.

SFX [00:23:29] I want to know who I am. I want to explore.

SFX [00:23:33] You're like the kids in Egypt. Throwdowns the government. Big, good evolution. No plan.

SFX [00:23:43] I'm doing man. I look at my parents and how strong they are and how they just know everything's going to be OK because they have God.

SFX [00:23:53] And yeah, I have sex, even though I'm not married. So what is that? It means I'm not a good Muslim.

SFX [00:24:04] I'm just trying to be good.

Sarah McConnell [00:24:07] Have you been inspired in some ways or freed up by watching Romney to think about ways you can express your identity through your film work?

Yossera Bouchtia [00:24:20] I'm laughing because it's it's so funny to think about just where I was five years ago or six years ago, where I was really grappling with my identity and asking myself, well, where do I belong? Where do I fit in? And in those past five years, I was making films that really related to that and to these questions I had about identity. I made a film, a documentary film about the Miss Arab USA pageant. And that was me trying to just really look at the psychology of being an Arab and being an American and trying to dispel certain stereotypes and misperceptions that, you know, most Americans have. My other film was a short film called I Am Selma. And it's about a teenage girl who is Muslim, and it's in the aftermath of 9/11. She gets teased for wearing her headscarf to school and because of that, her family tries to hide the fact that they are Muslim just to protect her and to protect themselves. And yet, despite that, she just feels that there is a deep injustice. And in the end, when she discovers that her mother took all her head scarves, she finds an American flag and she decides to wear that as her headscarf to school. So I was really trying to understand, like, who am I and what is my role and what what can I do in this conversation when it comes to identity politics? And now, I mean, I'm still I think my Filmworks still discusses that, but it's a bit bigger and a bit more broader. I've come to terms that, you know, I have two identities in a way. I am still Moroccan and I am American. And thankfully, I this is given me a bridge to connect the east and west and a lot of ways and what oftentimes feels like clashing cultures. Now I'm actually moving more into the supernatural horror.

Sarah McConnell [00:26:51] (Laughing) How so?

Yossera Bouchtia [00:26:54] I've been inspired by the work of Jordan Peele and his film Get Out. And I just find that you can say a lot more in horror. You can address a lot more themes in a way that's that doesn't feel so didactic. And again, just gets back to that accessibility makes everyone realize that everyone can connect to a black or brown protagonist and go through the journey with them and understand what it's like to be in their shoes. And that's what I'm interested in now.

Sarah McConnell [00:27:39] Yossera Bouchtia is a cinema professor at Virginia Commonwealth University to watch her films, go to Yossera.com. We'll be right back.

Sarah McConnell [00:28:02] Welcome back to With Good Reason at Virginia Humanities. In 2018, The Simpsons cartoon drew controversy for its portrayal of Apu, an Indian American cartoon character voiced by a white after named Hank Azaria. Recently, Azaria has said he'll no longer voice the character.

Hank Azaria [00:28:23] You know, the idea that anybody was young or old, past or present, was bullied or teased based on the character of Apu. It just really makes me sad. It was certainly not my intention. I wanted to spread laughter and joy with this character and the idea that it's, you know, brought pain and suffering in any way. It's upsetting. Genuinely.

Sarah McConnell [00:28:46] And in the last few weeks, more white actors have stepped down from voicing characters of color. Shilpa Dave is a professor of media studies and American studies at the University of Virginia. She's the author of Indian Accent, Brown Voice and Racial Performance in American Television and Film. Shilpa, what do you mean by Brown voice? What is Brown voice?

Shilpa Dave [00:29:11] What I was trying to get at was the fact that when we look at racialization of individuals or of groups, it's often visual and people only see a certain color. But when we think about racialization, it's deeper than just what someone looks like. It's a combination of factors. That includes how someone talks as well. And particularly for South Asians who come in a variety of colors are usually around different shades of brown in American culture. It's very difficult in a black white binary system to identify South Asians racially. So how is this done in Hollywood? It's often through portraying someone with a particular kind of accent. And what I call an Indian accent and brown voice is the construction of this monolithic Indian accent by Hollywood actors to portray someone who is different and other and from the South Asian continent. It creates one voice for a country of more than a billion people who talk in many very different ways.

Sarah McConnell [00:30:23] So give me several examples of the so-called brown voice. Stereotypically.

Shilpa Dave [00:30:29] The most famous instance of Brown Voice is from The Simpsons and the character Apu is a character from India. And he talks in a particular way, certain kinds of words that he says like mint chutney, slushie. However, the character is voiced by a white man, Hank Azaria. Because this is an animated show you see Apu as this brown man from India. But the voice you hear is the constructed vocal intonations of a white man pretending he is an Indian man. Here's an example in the episode, "Much Apu About Nothing" where Apu is concerned about his citizenship status because he's entered the U.S. on a student visa and he attempts to pass at being a citizen. And the way that he does this is by talking in a particular way and also having all the trappings of citizenship by dressing up as a fan of the New York Mets and wearing a cowboy hat.

SFX from the Simpsons [00:31:39] Hey, it's something again, or you're just noticing the way I'm talking to you. No, you see, it turns out I am an American citizen after all. Apparently, I just plumb forgot about it. Ha ha ha. Say, let's take a relaxed attitude toward work and watch the baseball match. The NY Mets are my favorite squadron.

SFX from the Simpsons [00:32:03] You get rid of that goofy, sacred elephant statue.

SFX from the Simpsons [00:32:07] Yeah. What was I thinking with that? Who needs the infinite compassion of Ganesha, when I've got Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman staring at me from Entertainment Weekly with their dead eyes.

Shilpa Dave [00:32:22] What he's doing is he is speaking in a way in which it's English, but the emphasis on syllables are different from what an American accent might normally sound like. He uses certain kinds of words associated with India, like Chutney or Ganesha. It's the way in which he speaks English that makes him an outsider.

Sarah McConnell [00:32:49] But I imagine cartoons are trying to create caricatures and in doing so, create stereotypes. Right. How does that hurt us in our perception of South Asians?

Shilpa Dave [00:33:01] Well, what's interesting is that no one knew for a long time. Cartoons don't reveal the person. So if you actually show a clip of someone speaking in an accent that doesn't match the way in which they're looking, it becomes problematic. And in fact, even today, a lot of voice actors are saying they're no longer going to play multiracial characters or characters that do not reflect who they are as a person.

Sarah McConnell [00:33:27] Are there other white actors that have been playing racialized characters?

Shilpa Dave [00:33:31] Oh, yes. In today's news. Kristen Bell, who is an actress, will no longer voice a mixed race character on Central Park. And the another voice actor Jenny Slate said she won't play the character of Missy Forman, who's a mixed race girl on the animated comedy Big Mouth. What happens is that you get one voice that is supposed to stand in for everybody instead of looking at the ways in which people speak differently. All people do not speak the same way. People have different intonations. They have different phrases that they use. And yet in Brown's voice and in Black voice, the stereotype shows that people speak in one particular way. And with Asians and Asian-Americans, it's that they do not speak English well. This also happens with Latinx performers and with African-Americans it's that they speak English but it's in a very different kind of tone. And this racializes is them in a way that is derogatory.

Sarah McConnell [00:34:34] Talk about South Asian characters and a couple of other sitcoms. You have Cici in New Girl and Mindy and The Mindy Project. How is Mindy's character stronger in a fuller portrayal of her full ethnicity?

Shilpa Dave [00:34:48] So Mindy Kaling was a writer for the show The Office, which was a huge hit. And then from there, she developed her own show, The Mindy Project, and she was the star. And the difference is, instead of other people writing what they thought South Asians or Indians might act like, it was Mindy Kaling who was in charge of not only writing her character, but she also represented herself. She was the central force. And so what The Mindy Project did is it's allowed people to write their own stories. That's the same thing that Mindy does in Never Have I Ever. She's brought in different writers, but she's also brought in different actors to show the multiplicity of roles that South Asians have in the world. In Never Have I Ever we have a teenager, Devi, who is dealing with the death of her father. And in the pilot episode, you start with a young girl who is going back to school on the first day of school in high school, and she's actually praying to her gods to say, let me have a good year in high school.

SFX [00:36:04] Hey Gods. Devi Vishwakarma your favorite Hindu girl in the San Fernando Valley. What's poppin'? It's first day of school. And I thought we should have a check. I think we can all agree that last year sucked for a number of reasons. So I thought of a few ways you guys can make it up to me. One, I'd like to be invited to a party with alcohol and hard drugs. I'm not gonna do them. I just like the opportunity to say no cocaine for me. Thanks. I'm good. Two, I'd love for my arm here at the now. I know it's an Indian thing, but my arms look like the friggin floor of a barber shop. And lastly, most importantly, I'd really, really like a boyfriend, but not some nerd from one of my AP classes, like a guy from a sports team. He could be dumb. I don't care. I just want him to be a stone cold hottie who could rock me all night long. Thanks for considering. I love you guys.

Shilpa Dave [00:36:58] What is so wonderful about this character is that she is going through the ritual of going to school and part of that includes asking for blessings. And so she's able to incorporate Indian culture as her everyday life. And it's not something that makes her an outlier, but instead is part of her everyday life.

Sarah McConnell [00:37:20] In this moment of a nationwide push for social justice.You're seeing a lot, as you mentioned earlier, of people in Hollywood and elsewhere saying," we're going to do our part by not portraying the character actors, et cetera." What else have you seen from the television and film industry that reflects this willingness to drop old stereotypes?

Shilpa Dave [00:37:42] With the advent of a lot of the streaming networks, particularly Netflix, there is a lot more openness on the industry to bring in original content. So they are reaching out to people who have not had the opportunity to often create mainstream or network television shows. And so a lot of these new series are coming out of subscription-based platforms. Never Have I Ever and To All The Boys I've Loved, which is another Asian-American teen drama. Were both on Netflix and they are wildly popular. And so they have drawn in a lot of subscribers. Seeing that there is a market for a lot of these news stories, not only are we getting South Asians watching these dramas, we're getting audiences of all different backgrounds who are coming to watch these. So when you do a teenage drama, when you do romantic comedy of young adults, you're bringing a lot of different people who are watching these kinds of shows. And you're showing that this is not just about a racialized character, but this is about someone who you could meet. And what you get is a nuance of a different perspective on something that maybe you thought you already knew.

Sarah McConnell [00:39:05] Well, Shilpa, thank you for talking with me on With Good Reason.

Shilpa Dave [00:39:09] Oh, it's been a pleasure, Sara. Thank you so much.

Sarah McConnell [00:39:22] Shilpa Dave is a professor of media studies and American studies at the University of Virginia. She's the author of Indian Accents, Brown Voice and Racial Performance in American Television and Film with everyone staying home. Experts say the coronavirus could have a positive impact on the environment. But how do we keep this going after the pandemic? Well, my next guest says documentaries about the environment are a good place to start. Tanya Stadelmann is a filmmaker and professor of film and media studies at William and Mary. Her own documentary called This Creek chronicles the contamination of a water source in New York and its devastating effects on the local population. And Tanya recommends two environmental documentaries that have profoundly influenced her work.

Tanya Stadelmann [00:40:14] The first film I'd like to recommend is called A Fierce Green Fire by Mark Kitchell from 2012. And what I like about this film is it gives you a great overview of the environmental movement and the title, A Fierce Green Fire. It's taken from a quote by Aldo Leopold, the American ecologist, an environmentalist, and it describes him looking into a fierce green fire in a dying wolf. And that was the moment that made him decide to become an activist.

Sarah McConnell [00:40:54] Tell me about one of your favorite moments in the film, A Fierce Green Fire. Can you play a clip?

Tanya Stadelmann [00:41:01] Sure. So A Fierce Green Fire actually consists of several other documentaries. And one of the moments that really stood out to me is when Paul Watson, he's the environmental activist who started the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society. And he was part of the beginning of Greenpeace Action. And you see a clip of him in the boat as they're trying to protect the whales from the Japanese who are shooting arrows at the whales. And he describes this moment of a dying whale that's coming out of the water. And he looks right into the eye and he sees the dying whale. And that for him was his turning point. So what I'm particularly interested in is what actually insights the beginning of someone to become an activist. The particular moment when a person experiences a suffering and is compelled to change their life path and pursue that. And that's what happened for Paul Watson.

SFX [00:42:11] Bob and I were in a small boat in front of a Soviet harpoon vessel that was bearing down on us in front of us as a magnificent sperm whales that were fleeing for their life. And every time the harpooner tried to get a shot, I was at the helm so I would maneuver the boat to try and block the harpoon.

SFX [00:42:26] And the harpooners not shooting. But eventually somebody from the bridge walks down the catwalk and talks to the harpooner and the harpooner nods and the guy goes back and Bob looks in his eyes and he knows this guy's going to shoot this harpoon.

SFX [00:42:40] Then he looked at us and smiled and brought his finger across his neck. And that's when I realized Gandi wasn't going to pull through for us. I did.

SFX [00:42:47] And at that very moment, they fire the harpoon.

SFX [00:42:55] This harpoon flew over our head and slammed into the backside of one of the whales and she screamed.

SFX [00:43:05] It was a very human like scream like a woman. And it took us completely off guard.

SFX [00:43:11] The whalers purposefully shoot at a female first because they know that the bull whales will attack them.

SFX [00:43:19] And then when the bull whales come to attack them, which is exactly what happened, he was waiting for them and very nonchalantly pulled the trigger and sent a second harpoon into the head of the whale. And he screamed and fell back. And now the water is full of blood everywhere from the two dying whales. And as this whale, a role in agony on the surface of the ocean, I caught his eye and he looked straight at me.

SFX [00:43:41] And we're looking into the eye of this huge sperm whale.

SFX [00:43:43] And I have to tell ya, it's sort of be on the emotional, you know, when you there's certain moments that are so emotional, you're just in brand new territory.

Sarah McConnell [00:43:54] You've also recommended for us a documentary called Gasland from 2011. What's that?

Tanya Stadelmann [00:44:02] What I like about Gasland is this is a personal story of how Josh Fox becomes an environmental activist and how it starts as he gets offered to sign a lease with a natural gas company so they can do the fracking. And since he didn't understand what the process was, he decides to set forth and visit people, other land owners, a lot of farmers, actually, who had signed leases. So he goes on this journey across the country and discovers all these people that experienced very bad water contamination after they had signed leases and where they had done the fracking on their lands. And so he collects their video testimonials and he tells the viewer the story of how he realizes that so many people don't understand the problems about water contamination, that he needs to make this film. So he sets forth to continue traveling across the country and he collects over 200 hours worth of footage, edits the film together, wins an Oscar, and then continues to travel across the country touring and screening the film to educate people. And it's what helped spark the anti-fracking movement.

Sarah McConnell [00:45:24] Did his particular style inspire something you have made called This Creek, a film about water contamination in New York State?

Tanya Stadelmann [00:45:34] What inspired me was how he connects with the people and collect their stories. And that is something that I proceeded to do with this creek. So I moved to Lockport, western New York, just started graduate school, and I told one of the locals that I am interested in environmental issues. And she said, well, I've got something for you. And so what I discovered was 18 Mile Creek is actually a popular sports fishing creek that runs north from Loch Port into Lake Ontario. And it's been polluted for over 100 years. And then I heard about Shirley Nickless, a woman in her late 70s, who spoke out about this on the public talkback radio show called Stuck in the Middle. So I set out to interview her and then I met more people and I got to collect all these testimonials of people talking about losing generations of their families to cancer. Many were workers that had worked in the factories that had worked without protective gear. People didn't understand how toxic the chemicals were that they were around. And actually, one of the highlights of my life was my first work in progress, screening to the community, a little theater. And it packed out, had up about 150 people in the cinema, had to turn 50 people away, and at the Q and A when I asked the audience who had been touched by cancer to raise their hand, almost all the hands were raised. And afterwards, many came up to me and they had tears in their eyes. They were so grateful that I was making this film that I was bringing the story to the public because the local media and the newspaper had not been reporting on this.

Sarah McConnell [00:47:37] Would you play a clip from the film for us, maybe a clip from one of the people you had interviewed whose story really struck you?

Tanya Stadelmann [00:47:44] So that the clips that I'm going to play is a series of residents talking about their experiences with cancer in their families.

SFX [00:47:57] I have had checkups and everything.

SFX [00:48:02] Most everybody that I know, close friends had passed away, that I worked with, everybody I worked towards at that I was I was friends with have died from cancer. Everybody.

SFX [00:48:16] Yeah. My mom and dad both got cancer. So my mom thinks what she has could have been related to it since she's been there for so long. She was diagnosed with breast cancer in 2009. I wasn't exactly sure what it meant. So it was tough going through school not being able to focus, really, if she had known that was a bad place. Like what was going on there? She might not have moved on and she could have a chance to change the way her life went.

Tanya Stadelmann [00:48:49] Corey Kemp was a student I interviewed at the Lockport High School. And when I recorded his interview hearing about what it was like for him to grow up with both of his parents having cancer, that really struck a deep chord with me and is a moment that I I think that I'll always keep. And I guess what I was so amazed by was his strength. And I later asked him what he wanted to be and he said, want to be a policeman. And he wanted to protect people. I was really struck by the strength of the high school students.

Sarah McConnell [00:49:31] Do you think we're having a moment of resurgence, of a realization that we can do something to turn back the damage we've done?

Tanya Stadelmann [00:49:41] Well, COVID lockdown. There have been many articles and pictures showing how the emissions have been dropping and suddenly the air is clear because people haven't been moving about as much and there's been more talk about it. So I think people are becoming more aware. And I just I I wonder, though, whether, you know, we'll just go back to how it was before. But I do get a sense that people have had more time to reflect. And to be able to live more simply. I know that's been the case for me, and I guess that is my hope and I think that's why I make these documentary films and why I teach these topics as I have hope that the young generation will keep speaking out.

Sarah McConnell [00:50:35] Well, Tanya Stadelmann. Thank you for giving us these ideas about what we might watch this summer on With Good Reason.

Tanya Stadelmann [00:50:42] Thank you very much. Was a pleasure.

Sarah McConnell [00:50:44] Take care.

Tanya Stadelmann [00:50:45] You too.

Sarah McConnell [00:50:55] Tanya Stadelmann is a professor of film and media studies at William and Mary to see her films. Go to TanyaStadelmann.com. Major support for with good reason is provided by the University of Virginia health system. Pioneering treatments to save lives and preserve brain function for stroke patients. UVAHealth.com. With Good Reason is produced in Charlottesville by Virginia Humanities, which acknowledges the Monacan nation. The original people of the land and waters of her home in Charlottesville, Virginia. Our production team is Alison Quantz. Matt Darroch, Lauren Francis and Jamal Millner, Aiden Carroll is our intern. Some of the music is from Blue Dot Sessions. For the podcast, go to withgoodreasonradio.org. I'm Sara McConnell. Thanks for listening.